Discussion:
Definition of "non-contact position"
(too old to reply)
Paul Epstein
2020-06-17 13:47:12 UTC
Permalink
If I recall correctly, many chouettes have rules which require assessing
whether a position is "contact" or "non-contact" so my (following) question
is not pure semantics.

I have eight checkers on my acepoint and no other checkers.
Tim has one checker left, and that's on the bar.
I am on roll.

The position is "contact" in the sense that the checkers are not
"past each other" but "non-contact" in the sense that hits are impossible.

I know this position might seem unrealistic because it involves a high
probability of me beating Tim -- everyone here knows that Tim would be
a near cert to beat me.

However, for those willing to entertain my fantasy, is my position contact
or non-contact?

Thanks,

Paul
Wally
2020-06-17 19:57:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Epstein
If I recall correctly, many chouettes have rules which require assessing
whether a position is "contact" or "non-contact" so my (following) question
is not pure semantics.
I have eight checkers on my acepoint and no other checkers.
Tim has one checker left, and that's on the bar.
I am on roll.
The position is "contact" in the sense that the checkers are not
"past each other" but "non-contact" in the sense that hits are impossible.
I know this position might seem unrealistic because it involves a high
probability of me beating Tim -- everyone here knows that Tim would be
a near cert to beat me.
However, for those willing to entertain my fantasy, is my position contact
or non-contact?
Thanks,
Paul
Contact.
Paul Epstein
2020-06-17 20:07:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wally
Post by Paul Epstein
If I recall correctly, many chouettes have rules which require assessing
whether a position is "contact" or "non-contact" so my (following) question
is not pure semantics.
I have eight checkers on my acepoint and no other checkers.
Tim has one checker left, and that's on the bar.
I am on roll.
The position is "contact" in the sense that the checkers are not
"past each other" but "non-contact" in the sense that hits are impossible.
I know this position might seem unrealistic because it involves a high
probability of me beating Tim -- everyone here knows that Tim would be
a near cert to beat me.
However, for those willing to entertain my fantasy, is my position contact
or non-contact?
Thanks,
Paul
Contact.
Do you have a particular definition or reference in mind?
Wally
2020-06-18 12:48:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Epstein
Post by Wally
Post by Paul Epstein
If I recall correctly, many chouettes have rules which require assessing
whether a position is "contact" or "non-contact" so my (following) question
is not pure semantics.
I have eight checkers on my acepoint and no other checkers.
Tim has one checker left, and that's on the bar.
I am on roll.
The position is "contact" in the sense that the checkers are not
"past each other" but "non-contact" in the sense that hits are impossible.
I know this position might seem unrealistic because it involves a high
probability of me beating Tim -- everyone here knows that Tim would be
a near cert to beat me.
However, for those willing to entertain my fantasy, is my position contact
or non-contact?
Thanks,
Paul
Contact.
Do you have a particular definition or reference in mind?
Just my opinion. The two sides are still in contact, even if hitting is unlikely.
Paul Epstein
2020-06-18 13:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wally
Post by Paul Epstein
Post by Wally
Post by Paul Epstein
If I recall correctly, many chouettes have rules which require assessing
whether a position is "contact" or "non-contact" so my (following) question
is not pure semantics.
I have eight checkers on my acepoint and no other checkers.
Tim has one checker left, and that's on the bar.
I am on roll.
The position is "contact" in the sense that the checkers are not
"past each other" but "non-contact" in the sense that hits are impossible.
I know this position might seem unrealistic because it involves a high
probability of me beating Tim -- everyone here knows that Tim would be
a near cert to beat me.
However, for those willing to entertain my fantasy, is my position contact
or non-contact?
Thanks,
Paul
Contact.
Do you have a particular definition or reference in mind?
Just my opinion. The two sides are still in contact, even if hitting is unlikely.
No, I think you misunderstood the position. Hitting is completely
impossible, not just unlikely.

Paul
Wally
2020-06-19 12:35:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Epstein
Post by Wally
Post by Paul Epstein
Post by Wally
Post by Paul Epstein
If I recall correctly, many chouettes have rules which require assessing
whether a position is "contact" or "non-contact" so my (following) question
is not pure semantics.
I have eight checkers on my acepoint and no other checkers.
Tim has one checker left, and that's on the bar.
I am on roll.
The position is "contact" in the sense that the checkers are not
"past each other" but "non-contact" in the sense that hits are impossible.
I know this position might seem unrealistic because it involves a high
probability of me beating Tim -- everyone here knows that Tim would be
a near cert to beat me.
However, for those willing to entertain my fantasy, is my position contact
or non-contact?
Thanks,
Paul
Contact.
Do you have a particular definition or reference in mind?
Just my opinion. The two sides are still in contact, even if hitting is unlikely.
No, I think you misunderstood the position. Hitting is completely
impossible, not just unlikely.
Paul
OK, consider the following sequence (A is the player with 4 on the ace, B has checker on the bar).

A rolls 2-1, grabs only one checker by mistake and takes it off. B allows the illegal play to stand.

B rolls 1-1 and dances.

A rolls a non-double and takes two off.

B rolls and ace and hits.

You get the rest. Unlikely but not impossible.
Paul Epstein
2020-06-19 15:14:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wally
Post by Paul Epstein
Post by Wally
Post by Paul Epstein
Post by Wally
Post by Paul Epstein
If I recall correctly, many chouettes have rules which require assessing
whether a position is "contact" or "non-contact" so my (following) question
is not pure semantics.
I have eight checkers on my acepoint and no other checkers.
Tim has one checker left, and that's on the bar.
I am on roll.
The position is "contact" in the sense that the checkers are not
"past each other" but "non-contact" in the sense that hits are impossible.
I know this position might seem unrealistic because it involves a high
probability of me beating Tim -- everyone here knows that Tim would be
a near cert to beat me.
However, for those willing to entertain my fantasy, is my position contact
or non-contact?
Thanks,
Paul
Contact.
Do you have a particular definition or reference in mind?
Just my opinion. The two sides are still in contact, even if hitting is unlikely.
No, I think you misunderstood the position. Hitting is completely
impossible, not just unlikely.
Paul
OK, consider the following sequence (A is the player with 4 on the ace, B has checker on the bar).
A rolls 2-1, grabs only one checker by mistake and takes it off. B allows the illegal play to stand.
B rolls 1-1 and dances.
A rolls a non-double and takes two off.
B rolls and ace and hits.
You get the rest. Unlikely but not impossible.
But it's an obvious assumption that illegal plays are not made.
By this way of arguing, nothing is impossible.

Is it possible that Tim has visited the planet Pluto?
Well, so far as we know, no such space rocket or technology exists.

But I think Tim invented the technology without telling anyone and
made a trip to Pluto without letting anybody know.

It's a really ridiculous way to contradict me -- pointing out that it
can happen with illegal plays.

Paul
Paul Epstein
2020-06-19 15:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wally
Post by Paul Epstein
Post by Wally
Post by Paul Epstein
Post by Wally
Post by Paul Epstein
If I recall correctly, many chouettes have rules which require assessing
whether a position is "contact" or "non-contact" so my (following) question
is not pure semantics.
I have eight checkers on my acepoint and no other checkers.
Tim has one checker left, and that's on the bar.
I am on roll.
The position is "contact" in the sense that the checkers are not
"past each other" but "non-contact" in the sense that hits are impossible.
I know this position might seem unrealistic because it involves a high
probability of me beating Tim -- everyone here knows that Tim would be
a near cert to beat me.
However, for those willing to entertain my fantasy, is my position contact
or non-contact?
Thanks,
Paul
Contact.
Do you have a particular definition or reference in mind?
Just my opinion. The two sides are still in contact, even if hitting is unlikely.
No, I think you misunderstood the position. Hitting is completely
impossible, not just unlikely.
Paul
OK, consider the following sequence (A is the player with 4 on the ace, B has checker on the bar).
A rolls 2-1, grabs only one checker by mistake and takes it off. B allows the illegal play to stand.
B rolls 1-1 and dances.
A rolls a non-double and takes two off.
B rolls and ace and hits.
You get the rest. Unlikely but not impossible.
This doesn't work as an explanation of why the position is contact because,
if illegal plays are allowed to be made and to stand, every position in
an unfinished game is a contact position. I'm just going to grab one
of your checkers and place it on the bar whether it's legal or not.

Paul

Tim Chow
2020-06-18 15:36:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Epstein
If I recall correctly, many chouettes have rules which require assessing
whether a position is "contact" or "non-contact" so my (following) question
is not pure semantics.
In Tom Keith's article on the subject---

https://bkgm.com/articles/Keith/Hyper09/index.html

---he calls this "block-only contact."

---
Tim Chow
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